Host: Jen Lamboy, Director of Strategy, Hybrid Marketing Co.
Guests: Lauren Mundell, Founder and CEO of Hi-Curious, Aaron Rosenbluth, Director of Content at Hybrid Marketing Co. & SJ Gingras, Social Media Manager at Hybrid Marketing Co.
Jen Lamboy: Everyone, thank you for joining us today for our webinar on influencer marketing. Who we follow says so much about us. For example, I run a lot. Ultramarathons are my favorite jaunts. That’s the race duration that I love the most. Running up and down mountains is a large part of who I am. It’s also a large part of who I identify with. So, I have followed Scott Jurek in particular for the last 20 plus years. Arguably the top ultra runner of our time. I read his books, I cook his recipes. I cried when his dog Tonto passed. I celebrated when he got remarried. In fact, he and his wife Jenny just spent their anniversary running the high lonesome hundred last week. So I loved kind of tracking their journey. When he speaks, I listen and I follow. And really, this whole way of pulling influencers into our very lives is the topic of our webinar today, under the influence, using influencers to drive cannabis brand success. My name is Jen Lamboy. I’m the director of strategy at Hybrid Marketing Co. We are a business outcomes focused cannabis marketing agency based in Denver, Colorado. We’ve been in the space since 2015. We focus on key business drivers like revenue, risk, cost, cash flow, and asset utilization, which is why we feel this discussion on influencer marketing is so necessary, especially in the cannabis space. I am super thrilled to have you here from our panel, starting with Lauren Mundelll, founder of Hi-Curious. She has deep, deep roots in PR and in recent years has stepped rather ferociously into the world of influencer marketing. As one of this industry’s top experts, I’m also joined by our content director, Aaron Rosenbluth, and our social media manager, graphic designer and influencer, also known as the ouid fairy, SJ Gingras. Together, these two build and execute brand-building social strategies for cannabis brands, retailers, the full spectrum. If I had to pick favorites, these three colleagues bubble up to the top of my list. I adore them, and I’m so pleased to have you hear from them today. I’ll also say if you stick on the webinar with us, we have a little treat. So stay with us. We’re going to run about 45 minutes of conversation. We’ll have Q and A like I mentioned earlier. If you’ve got questions, please throw those into the Q and A function at the bottom of the doc. And Lauren, will you jump in and introduce yourself first?
Lauren Mundell: Hi. Thank you so much, Jen, and thank you for having me here today to talk about this. I’m very passionate about influencer marketing. I started getting into influencer marketing in 2011, 2012, and influencer marketing wasn’t a thing then. It wasn’t a word. The word influencer didn’t really even exist then, but it was a part of public relations, which is what I was. My business was. And so I was like, well, there’s a whole. There’s media, and there was, of course, social media, but now there’s these people rising to be those people. Like Jen said at the beginning, talk that you follow, that you love that. And, you know, and I was like, wait. These people feel so much more, like, real to me than the media. And so I really started pivoting into influencer marketing early, early on in the days of influencer marketing, and now my business. Hi-Curious. I help cannabis brands find content creators and influencers to help represent them as well as tell their story. And then on the other side, I help influencers find the right brands and help influencers make money in cannabis and also in the wellness space, because as we all know, probably everybody on this webinar, there’s not a lot of money in cannabis right now. It’s very hard. So we all have, you know, our hearts are in cannabis, but our hustle is also in the mainstream. So that’s a little bit about me.
Jen Lamboy: Awesome. Aaron, you want to jump in there?
Aaron Rosenbluth: I’m Aaron Rosenbluth. Thank you, Jen, for that lovely opening. I’m our director of content. I was the first official employee of the company way back in 2015. And for many years in the company, prior to us scaling and bringing on lovely folks like SJ, I was directly involved in all of the social media management for us and our clients. And so I’ve watched things change over time, and I’ve known for years of the importance of influencers, back to Lauren’s point in the beginning, when I was building my own social presence, which has ballooned and then shot down to very little as I’ve removed fake people. I recognize the importance of this. We didn’t know what to call it in the beginning, but you clearly saw the rise of this world. And I’ll admit that my own experience with influencers, working with them through this agency, has been somewhat minimal, and I wouldn’t say positive. So I’m really excited for this conversation because I personally have a lot to learn, and I really want to make it clear that there’s a distinction, there’s subsets within marketing, social media management does not necessarily encompass influencer management from an agency perspective. So really excited to dive into the little, the subsets of how this world and how it works and how people understand that you want to hire professionals for that.
SJ Gingras: Yep, awesome. Well, I’m SJ and I work with Aaron at Hybrid. And I kind of, I came into this space about two years ago, and it’s interesting because I have the Gen Z lens. You know, I grew up with social media since I was an early teenager, so I kind of have a different lens on this whole industry. But I am a graphic designer. I’m a social media manager for a bunch of different clients. Anything from a dispensary to production. I’m not sure how to describe it, but, yeah, and then I also do the ouid fairy, which is interesting and been a really cool aspect of my job here at hybrid. So basically just a cannabis influencer doing the thing. And it’s pretty fun and exciting, and there’s also a lot to learn, and I’ve learned a lot about what you can and cannot say or cannot show and kind of how to be an influencer for a brand. So, yeah, I’m excited to talk about this webinar.
Jen Lamboy: Thank you. I’ll say we’re used to. We’re used to navigating, and I’m sure as well as the folks who are on this webinar, we’re used to navigating the restrictions. Cannabis, even if you’re entering the space of the CPG world with a health and wellness product, when you’re coming from cannabis, you’re still. Of course, I don’t want to say, well, the restrictions apply. So as we’re talking about, you know, influencer marketing, in particular, the channels that we have at our fingertips to leverage a more positive ROI when we know that margins are razor thin. I also want to, I also want to throw out there that there are differences between a social media strategy and agency and an influencer marketing strategy and agency. So if one of you guys want to jump in and just kind of set the playing field so that also the audience members know, like, okay, now we’re moving.
Yes, we’re under the umbrella of marketing. We’re using social platforms. Influencer marketing is not social media marketing. So jump in there. What are we, what’s the difference here that we’re talking about? Who wants to take a start? Who wants to start?
SJ Gingras: Sure, I’ll say that from my perspective, as someone who does social media marketing, as half of my job. And then the other half is kind of as the influencer. Social media marketing is more so promoting your brand. And I think social media, influencer marketing is more so promoting the person. And that person just so happens to love a certain brand. And so you, as the follower, love the person and you are then influenced by what they like. Same as how Jen was talking about this runner that she follows. Like, if he likes a certain brand of shoe and promotes it, Jen might be more likely to go out and buy that brand. Or like ten pairs of those shoes.
Aaron Rosenbluth: I was gonna say the same thing to just sort of back up and iterate on what SJ said. It’s very different from our perspective because we generally are working, as mentioned, with brands and discussing, well, what they do to their community of followers. And it tends to operate quite differently from the brand perspective as it does from the individual influencer perspective. It’s really different what we do. It’s like we’re talking as the brand to many, and people don’t tend to want to connect with a faceless company in some ways in the same way that they do with an individual who they trust, like Scott Jurek or whoever. All of us have an example of that in our world. So to me, there’s a really unique distinction there that people don’t quite understand, which is easy to understand.
Lauren Mundell: Yeah. And I think the way I would explain it to marketers is the same way as you would never expect that, for example, hybrid had a public relations arm, right? That’s not something that you do. And you don’t have an influencer marketing arm, because influencer marketing really sits much more squarely into the public relations bucket than the traditional, the marketing bucket. And that’s not to say that, like I always say, there’s a science and an art in marketing, and of course, in every job in marketing, there’s science and art. But in influencer marketing, it’s all about relationships, and that’s the same thing as pr, which actually people don’t really realize, but the word is public relations relating to the public. And that’s really what influencer marketing is, because, you know, you just, you don’t just, I mean, yes, you can pull a list and you can reach out to those people with a form, email, and you can hope that some of them get back to you, and then you can, and I’m sure this is probably what you guys have done in the past, or you can, you know and see how it goes, or you can work with somebody like me, who has relationships across the entire industry and in the wellness industry as well, and can help from a marketing standpoint, think about who is your target market now let’s figure out who are those people who reach that target market? And then I’m going to introduce you to some people that I have relationships with, and we’re going to do that, and then we’re going to broaden out from there. And that’s what we do with all of our clients.
Aaron Rosenbluth: I love that. You just made me think of something, what we tried to do and where we learned this the hard way for ourselves as we were growing several years ago. I remember in 2018, we weren’t doing, it wasn’t even as sophisticated for us initially as like a list and a forum and helping, you know, it was just, I’m looking at people on Instagram who I think could be potential influencers for our client clients, and I’m just messaging them, and then occasionally they’ve responded. And in, like, two or three different circumstances, we had a very messy, wildly disorganized conversation and process with no contract. And I realized, and it didn’t go well, you know, on, in any way, shape or form. So that’s where I realized, like, wow, this isn’t what I think it is. It’s a lot harder than I think it is. And we are, we need to get it organized, but more broadly, we shouldn’t be doing this ourselves.
Lauren Mundell: Yeah, and it’s not, it’s not a, it’s not like you can just reach out to somebody in the DM’s and they’re going to get back to you. Like, that’s nothing. I mean, sure, maybe, but not like the real people that you want to work with, the people that you want to work with, like the bigger names and stuff like that. The way you’re going to get them is by building a relationship with them. And that looks like not just following them because, like, oh, today, my think this one brand will would be great for them. It’s like, oh, this is somebody who I want to watch for our agency, you know, and then it’s like, okay. And then these are the 25 people that I’m going to, like, stoke relationships with, you know, over time. And obviously that takes, that’s a job, like a big job, and it takes, you know, it’s just, and I just want to explain it exactly. Like, for people who understand, like, old school pr, right. It’s the exact same thing as taking the media out to lunch, building relationships with them, finding out how many kids they have sent sending them flowers on their birthday. It’s knowing these people. It’s knowing that their dog died. You know what I mean? It’s knowing that they might not be in a great place right now for you to reach out to them because their mom died last week. Right. And like, you, if you, Aaron, don’t know that, because you’re just like, hey, these people are good. Oh, let me just get all businessy with them. And that’s not how roll. That’s not it. You know? Didn’t work. Doesn’t work. Didn’t work. I don’t know. SJ, do you want to say anything about that?
SJ Gingras: I’ll say, too, when I kind of alluded to those restrictions that we have to navigate as, let’s say, as an agency. So we know, like Lauren was saying, like, we know we’re building kind of a higher level, customized strategy and what channels are available to us when it comes down to building those relationships. And when you’re saying, this is not, hey, I’m going to see who’s going to message me, who’s out there today, but you’re building a longer term relationship.
Jen Lamboy: What we also want to know whether you’re on, like, the traditional marketing side or on the influencer side is especially with razor thin margins. Like I said, return on investment. So what are we talking about here? How are we measuring and what’s really the benefit of moving into an influencer strategy? I asked, like, five questions in one. I know we will answer a lot of those questions in the presentation as we, as we move through it. So let’s just start with how would you measure ROI? Lauren, I bet you get this question a lot.
Lauren Mundell: Yeah. And I would say, just like I’ve said throughout my entire career in print, I, it’s not scientific. It’s not the same as. And that’s another reason why it’s different than what you guys do. It’s not as measurable. There’s tools that are getting us there now. And I have access to a couple of different tools and allows me to look at influencers, measure campaigns, see how we’re doing over time, month over month. But that’s really what it’s about. It’s about setting benchmarks. For example, maybe your benchmark is, maybe your biggest goal right now is our brand wants followers on Instagram, so we have a place to speak from. So then I would say, okay, so then that’s a whole, like, that’s a strategy of all right. So let’s figure out how to get you followers. And that’s probably going to be giveaways, competition, like things like that, like work. Right? And then there’s, but then there’s another goal that could be, we want you to buy. That’s another whole, like, objective. So, so I don’t know. I, like, I lost where I was going with this. But yeah, that’s a hard, we try to answer that question all the time. And that’s a really challenging thing to show with social media generally. Unless you’re, it’s like to your point, if you’re, if your goal is vanity metrics like engagement and impressions, and you can pretty easily see that increase or follower count. But then some of the actual, like, that still doesn’t necessarily highlight direct roi, you know, but like, for example, yesterday, like, I’ll just talk about my own content for 1 second just because it’s my own experience of how people think and how people shop and, you know, it’s just, you’re not, again, just the same way as with pr, right? You didn’t place, you don’t place a story so that you can get sales right off the bat. You place a story to build your reputation, to tell your story for you and then to let others kind of make their opinion about you. And that’s what I think influencer marketing should be. So for example, well, first of all, on LinkedIn yesterday, I’m in a lot of conversations about influencer marketing, and one of them was this woman saying that she wants to pay for performance, which I’m totally against that. And my recommendation was to pay for, like multiple posts. So if you were going to pay $1,000 for one post or maybe 500, and if they hit a certain metric of views, then pay, then get, you know, another, then they get another $500. So if you had $1,000 in your budget, pay them $1,000, but do it for three posts and then ask them to also make multiple stories and do it over the course of a month. And I guarantee you if you add up all those impressions, you’ll have, you know, you’ll have what you wanted, number one, maybe one will kind of hit, right? And also, not every single piece of content is made for, like, virality. And sometimes you can’t, like, get your message across in something that’s going to be viral. So. So the question about, like, how do you show Roi is for me? So in my personal stuff, okay, I take screenshots of this all the time. Yesterday I make a post about stash logics and like how I’m holding an empty stash jar and, you know, of course, everyone. And I’m like, I need to go re up. This is the worst. And of course people are like, this is the worst, you know, but then I have people ask, say to me, I know this is off topic, but what are those headphones that you, that you’re wearing? Right? And so I’m like, oh, they’re in my Amazon store. I’ll dm you the link. Right, okay, so I didn’t necessarily. Maybe I sold stash jars, but I’m also selling headphones. Right. And then, okay, so then there’s another post that I have. I’m killing it this week. So, like, I have another post this week that has over 160,000 views. And it’s literally, it’s me holding a student glass, just the pink straw of it in a pool. And the headline just says, if your cannabis event, if your plant event is at a bar, I’m not coming. Anyway, people are like, what is that device? And then there’s been this whole conversation about, I really want that device. It’s studing glass. I tag student glass. They’re not, you know, I student glass. The person asks me, what is that? Somebody asked me, I love that device. What is it? I say, oh, it’s studenglass. Next thing I love is that I’m thinking about getting it. Do you think it’s a good everyday piece? Me? No, it’s not a good everyday piece. If you want a good everyday piece, choose chills at I tag chill steel pipes or prisma water pipes. You know, this is a party piece. So, okay, so that’s what ROI is to me. It’s starting a conversation about your brand that you could never see elsewhere, but you can see it on social media. So when you, like, we work with Truleive and what we always show truly is intent to shop. We have people being like, I didn’t know about these. The rewards program. Thank you so much for telling, for letting me know. I didn’t even know that there was a true leave near me, but because I saw your I. So those are the things. That’s the intangibles. Like, that’s why you will spend thousands of thousands of dollars to get one New York Times article, right? Thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands on a pr agency just to get that one, right. Kind of the same energy, right? It’s a little bit of a gamble. It’s like a little tiny bit of a gamble. And that’s like, what makes it so incredible? You make me think of what. That’s real influence right there. When you’re posting about one thing, like the stash, the jar, and somebody is asking you about, what are your headphones? What is this thing? It’s because you’re highlighting and selling a lifestyle. It’s not just about the one product that’s in your hands. So when they start asking you about all of that, I’m like, that’s when I go, wow, that’s really. That’s holding actual influence beyond even just the thing that you’re talking about in the post. Like, what I need, right? I mean, that’s why I know pushing into the wellness space and into the mainstream is totally viable for cannabis influencers. And a course that I’m teaching right now is, you know, is called monetizing your influence, and it’s to help cannabis influencers learn how to turn their business, you know, their platforms into businesses. And. And I’m doing that because, like, there’s just in the mainstream, influencers are really highly respected, and most marketers really understand, or if they don’t understand, as you guys do, respect, that this is an area of expertise that they don’t have. And so they have someone on their teams in the mainstream for that. So we could be working with, you know, so, for example, I’m. I don’t. I want to be working with clothing brands and jewelry brands and all that once, you know, you don’t have to just. You’re not. I’m not just a cannabis influencer. I don’t see myself. Yeah, that makes me think of that. We’re all looking for normalization, and when, you know, that’s what happens when, like, the can’t. When the cannabis influencer views themselves as much more than a cannabis influencer, just broadly an influencer. You know, it’s like you’re weaving the plant into all of these other worlds and conversations, and it totally normalizes it. It’s like, oh, I can be a weed influencer, and I can have the Stanley, you know, water thermos. That’s all the rate, of course. And it’s like, think about the 50 products that I use a day that are not cannabis products. That’s where we’re. You know, that that’s, you know, it doesn’t have to be cannabis. But, I mean, we’re here to talk about cannabis. But, you know, but think about it, mains. You know, broadly, it is not just a. You’re not just buying an ad, you’re buying that the trust, you know, you’re buying the fact that somebody is like, you know, I have people now who are like, I saw this real and I’m so happy. This is the best page. Like, it’s the best feeling, you know, and that’s like, that’s what I’m not. That’s not just happening to me. That’s how everybody feels about the influencers that they follow and when they discover them. And you’re just the person, you know, you’re relatable.
Aaron Rosenbluth: I love the magic of that. Like, oh, this person who I respect, who I buy, what they tell me to buy, I listen to the podcast, they tell me to listen to identify. I want some aspect of my life to look like theirs.
Jen Lamboy: Yeah, sorry, I just lost the thread, but that’s called the parasocial relationship.
When we’re talking about goals that, let’s say if we pivot back over to the businesses who are looking at influencer marketing as part of their marketing mix, the goals that you mentioned, Lauren, what about also, like, where if someone’s doing a new product launch, is that appropriate? Is someone’s looking to. I think about the circumstances. We work with msos and they’re looking ultimately at sometimes acquisition or some portion of acquisition and social following is one of those boxes that they want checked. What are some of the other goals that businesses, I’m sorry, not goals, but what are some other circumstances where influencer is going to move the needle?
Lauren Mundell: Well, first of all, I think reputation is a number one element that you should think about. So just the same way, like I said, I keep going back to PR, but like, you know, if you want to raise your reputation, think about who you want to align your brand with. So as you announce the fact that you are like your coming out party, who are the people who you want to be carrying your message, and those people should have your product on launch day, you know, and all that. And that’s like, you know how you build the personality of your brand and is by like inviting the right people into be telling, helping you tell your story. And then secondarily, so that’s like when you first open up and so like maybe you have a party and you invite influencers to it, you know, maybe if it’s a national brand, you, you know, you do big launch and you send a PR kit to all these different influencers, you know, and pay them to make posts, a couple posts for you that they’re really excited and they’re congratulating you for coming, you know, being in business and why they’re so excited about your product. Then the next thing is, let’s say you’re an established company and you want to launch a new product. For example, dialed in. Dialed-In is one of my clients and they are launching, they just launched a sub product to their brand called dialed out, which is so genius. And it’s their sleep gummy. And it’s awesome because a lot of times with dialed in you can only get like if you’re in Colorado, you can only get certain strains and then you can never get it again. So they wanted to make a product that would be always repeatable, same exact experience. So that’s this new product dialed out. And tonight they’re having their launch party. It’s at a place called Workbench in Denver and they asked me to bring, to invite influencers to come. So given their budget, it’s me and Wu who’s in one of your slides that I just saw and Emily McCarter. McCarter gets high. So Wulan, Russell and Emily and me are all going to the dialed in sleep event. Hence why I’m kind of wearing like a nightgown type of situation tonight at 06:00. And so, and then also we, they paid us to, we went on a kayaking excursion together and dialed in also paid us to make a reel about dialed in while we were kayaking which just went live yesterday. And then we each are making a reel about the sleep gummies. So Wu’s already made hers. It has about 6000 views right now. Mine’s not out yet. I haven’t made it yet. I haven’t tried the product yet. If I’m being honest, I need to like do the whole thing. And Emily hasn’t posted hers either. But like basically that’s the campaign. So like for this new product that they’re launching, they, not only they, I was like look, we’re going kayaking but we can’t use the sleep gummy when we’re kayaking. But we can promote you guys and then we can show that we’re working with you guys. And then as more of our content rolls out it makes kind of like more sense. And that’s the other thing. Like it’s not just a one and done, you know, it has to have meaning because otherwise, like if I’m just going to be like, yes, these pen people paid me for one post. Like you’ll never see it again. Why would you buy that? I think people can sniff out.
Aaron Rosenbluth: That makes me think of I mean, we talk a lot about in various things with marketing, our goal, with everything we do for ourselves, our client is authenticity. And that’s a big part of what you’re discussing. I think people are, people understand, they know that influencers exist. Now, we’ve all seen the very high profile influencers, so it feels like you’re, everyone’s hip to the game. So if it feels like they’re just doing it to cash in and it’s not authentic, then it, I think people are pretty sensitive to that now. It’s got to be real, you know?
Lauren Mundell: Absolutely. And, I mean, I’m looking at this on the Dialed-In post from yesterday. We also got a, you know, so many anecdotal type comments. I love dialed in. Oh, I need to find some solvent less gummies where I live because I put that in the caption, you know, or, oh, you know, I really wanted to try this brand. The dispensary that I go to doesn’t have it. So that gives me the chance to go. To go to dialed in.com to find the dispensaries that have it, you know, so, like, it’s literally like opening up a conversation that the held in just can’t have. Wow, that makes me like, where we started. The difference between the brand’s experience talking to people on social versus an individual and influencers experience. It’s totally, you mentioned a couple people. There’s SJ put together a few screenshots here and also a list of who. So I’m curious to know how you find influencers and. Yeah, how you, how you find them and who’s, you know, again, SJ put together a nice list. Do you want to jump in there?
SJ Gingras: Jen, could you go back like two slides. Yeah. To this one. So, yeah, I wanted to talk about, like, I feel like people are always asking, how do you find these people? How, how are people finding reliable influencers that are not going to be a pain and can produce great content? And from what I’ve found as being a cannabis influencer, I think it’s really helpful to go through who. If you find someone who you like, that’s a great start because then you can go through not only their following, so you can click on who they’re following. Scroll through that huge list, you’ll find a ton of other cannabis influencers. Because at the end of the day, it’s a community on social media, and each cannabis influencer wants to follow people similar to them to build their community, to have those people start commenting on their posts. It’s like a mutually beneficial relationship to be following other cannabis influencers. And then not only that, but if you go to someone’s post who, like, you know, say the post performs really well, you can go through their comments and see who’s active. And I call it active scrolling on Instagram or on social media when you’re, you know, it’s one thing for a company or a person to post on Instagram, but it’s another thing to be active in comments, in posting on your story, in scrolling through other people’s content and actively looking for people to follow. So I think it’s always a great resource just to look at people who you like, see who they follow, and then see who’s commenting on their posts. And then also, you know, we have people like Lauren with high curious who have created an entire platform exactly for that. But yeah, I think the following in the comments is kind of where I find myself searching for fellow influencers.
Aaron Rosenbluth: You make me think about that. I’ve used this analogy probably too much, and I think I used it on our last social media webinar, but I’m going to use it again. It makes me think of, like, arena rock. I’m obsessed with music. So pardon me for the. Obviously it’s arena rock versus punk rock. Like the thing that I always loved about punk rock. There are many things, but it’s the idea of, like, breaking down the walls between the band or the artist and the fans, like the community. And when it’s the arena rock, there’s like you’re, it’s huge. There’s thousands and thousands of people. You’re separated by a giant barrier and security or whatever it is. Like, it’s a very different experience. And these people are up here not engaging with the community down here. So it’s like, you know, the punk rock example, it’s like you’re not just a pretentious brand or person not engaging with your audience, you’re part of the community. You’re breaking down those walls. It’s more diy.
Lauren Mundell: Yeah, I just, I love that approach. I hate the self centeredness of a brand or an influencer who doesn’t engage with their audience. It’s about. Yeah, I mean, that’s what I would tell brands, too. It’s like, I mean, it’s great. You can have a social media agency handle your content, but if you’re not really paying attention to what’s going on on your feed, you’re totally missing out. I mean, that’s where your customers are. That’s where they’re talking. That’s where you have the opportunity for them to be talking to you. Find a lot of brands are kind of, like, outsourcing their social, like, their instagram, to kind of, like, you know, a very, like, somebody who honestly, like, I don’t even want to say anything about those people. Somebody who does not have enough time, somebody who is only tasked to that maybe like 1 hour a day, let’s just say because of the budget or whatever. And then they. So they don’t care. They don’t really care. Like, I mean, they can’t. They might have eight other things that they’re working on. Sure. Do they. Are they going to be, like, remembering that that person really loves this brand and, you know, and telling them this, like, no, they’re not. Are they going to be bubbling back up to the brand? Hey, you should send a care package to this person because, you know, they, like, like, all. That’s where the ideas come from. All the ideas. Like, look what, like, Wendy’s does, for example. Like. Right. I think it was Wendy’s or, I don’t know, it was one of the big. Yeah, we talked about them a lot. Yeah. You know, they’re so good. They always nail it. Yeah. Right. So somebody. Oh, no, it was California pizza kitchen. This was a great one. So somebody posted at a restaurant that at California pizza kitchen that all they got was cheese. There was no pasta in their macaroni and cheese. And so California pizza kitchen took her reel that she made, and they re. They remixed it, and they did a training video to teach all of their kitchens how to make macaroni and cheese. Like a tongue in cheek, but, like, funny training video. Then they sent the per. The influence, she actually is an influencer. So, like, they sent the influencer a free pizza and macaroni and cheese for a year. And the post has, like, you know, over 3 million views or something. So, you know, like, obviously mistakes happen, and if you’re not. So don’t take yourself so seriously, and you can turn an opportunity, like, you can turn an issue into an opportunity instead of, like, a crisis.
Aaron Rosenbluth: Right. Yeah. That’s really listening. That’s seizing the moment and listening to your audience and your community and taking, and taking advantage of trends and what just humanity, what people like. But, like, Wendy’s pays probably spends, I don’t know, I want to say, half a million dollars a month on social media. Like, the. Watching the ideas and then investing in an idea. Wendy’s cow for speed ticket. Then the decision making has to be really short on. Are you going to, like, invest in this idea? What’s the problem? How do we fix it? Right type of situation, or what’s the opportunity? Hey, we heard a celebrity came into the store. You know, let’s figure out how to do that. Or a celebrity was tweeting about us, let’s send them something. You know what I mean? Like, it doesn’t happen unless you’re constantly stoking the fires. That makes me think about agility, too, with, it’s hard with, you know, that sometimes the agency, the relationship requires a bit more approval processes. Like, there, you know, you can’t, you can’t, you can’t bog yourself down in unnecessary approvals. And, like, the agency or the influencer, people have to have the autonomy to look at something like that and be able to run with it quickly.
Lauren Mundell: Yes and no. I mean, like, for example, we work with Trulieve and we don’t get to just, like, post what we want. We have to, like, you know, have an approval process. But when we get so at high curious, we give the assignments out to the creators on the. We want you to do, like, one thing that’s trending, one thing that’s in store. You know, like an in store. Tell us a story about an in store experience. And one thing for this month, this is what it is. And one thing that. Just a relatable life story about yourself. Right? So because we want, we want three things. We don’t want the same thing every time. Right? So this way they get to. And so if they’re doing a trend, you know, the, the team will get it. Get it approved in 24 hours. So the trend will still be there in 24 hours. Yeah, but, like, so, but that’s part of it is, like, you have to also have somebody on your side, especially if you want to have things approved, if you want to have some control over things, you have to have somebody on your side that’s going to be able to, like, look at it and be like, good or no, they use this word in the caption, and that’s not going to work for us or whatever, you know, something else I wanted to talk about kind of along those lines is how does a brand actually reach out to an influencer? And what do they say? Like, I. There’s a slide on the presentation, Jen, that I took a few screenshots of DM’s that brands have sent me because I think some work much better than others. There’s. I think for me, what works well is when there are expectations set. So they’ll say, can we send you this pr package in exchange for a post on your feed or a reel or whatever it may be? And then on the other end, there was a DM I got that said, love your content, let’s collab. And then I was like, awesome, let’s do it. And then they just read my message and never replied. So it’s like, I don’t know, I just think it’s interesting the way that brands go about it. I think they need to be professional and upfront and clear about the expectations. But I was wondering, Lauren, if you had any kind of template that you work with, anything. I mean, you were just talking about how you kind of give some guidance. Do you think it’s better to give an influencer guidance or do you think it’s better to just let them run with it and see what happens?
Lauren Mundell: Well, a few things. I mean, you asked a couple questions, so wait, I want to go back to the one where you said how the best to reach out and whatever. Okay, so here’s my best advice. This is advice to us, Jay, but also to anybody who’s trying to professionalize the business of, of being a cannabis influencer is move it to email. So this Dming situation makes them think that you’re not professional. So the more of this conversation that you’re. Remember, you’re having a conversation with somebody like Aaron or somebody like, you know, maybe somewhere in between your age and Erin’s age, you know what I mean? Who lives in email. Like Jen said earlier, she uses it as her newsfeed. Like, that’s a mindset. That’s Gen X mindset. And chances are you’re trying to talk to a gen Xer or a millennium, a millennial. Okay. And the gen zer who’s in the DM’s is not the decision maker most of the time. And so what I would say is, hey, I’ll be happy to send you my rates. Can we move this to email? What’s a good email? And then just move it over to email and then just go from there. And then you’re also. You’re going to have a different mindset about it. Yeah. You know, now you’re going to be crafting. Now you’re going to be crafting emails instead of just firing off DM’s. And so if you want your business to be a business, you need to act like it’s a business. And the DM’s are a great place to build relationships, but not the best place to get work done. That’s interesting to me. That even goes back to the experience I have when I was the person dming an influencer and being like, hey, can I get, because my mindset was like, it wasn’t necessarily like looking at, hey, this person’s a professional and this is a business they were running. It was more from our perspective, like we, we have limited budget. Actually almost no budget. Can I get this person who seems to have some relative influence to do something for just trade for us, like and where. So then it becomes like, it’s not a real professional business relationship then, but still it is because like the hope, obviously, and everybody’s gonna cling on to this hope is like, well, we don’t really have any money right now, but we’re, you know, and so we are, we’d hope to do some sort of trade with you. And if it helps you do a giveaway, that would also be great because we have products play with, but we don’t have money to play with right now. Like, be real with them, tell them the truth and then say like this client, we hoping that they’re going to be spending more money because we want to show them that this type of work really works. So we’re going to be merchandising this back to them and also tell them if it’s helpful for you, we’ll happily share your content on our pages. Ask them what’s helpful for them, thinking about it from their perspective and knowing that you don’t really have a lot of money and you’re like a little embarrassed about it, but figure out how to talk about it in a real way. Be real. So a brand who’s looking for a cannabis influencer should maybe shoot them a DM just to kind of build a more casual relationship. But maybe in the DM, they ask for their email and then bring that real business conversation over to a more professional setting.
Lauren Mundell: Yeah. How I would do it is I would start, if I’m the brand and I want to work with somebody today, I would follow them. I would see if they might reach back out and be like, oh, my God, thanks for the follow. Okay. Because that happens a lot, especially if they’re, you’re a cannabis brand and they’re a cannabis influencer. They’re like, you know what I mean? They’re excited. It’s true. So then the next day be like, hey, love your content. Are you, do you work with brands? You know, like something like that. And then, but also watch their stories that day before you send that DM and shoot them. Like, whatever their story has, react to it. Like, write a little comment, like relatable or comment on their last two reels. You know what I mean? Show. Before you slip into the DM’s show theme that you’re interested. Now they’re like, oh, they like me? And now they’re excited to hear from you. And don’t forget that if they’re not following you back, then your DM is probably going into their requests folder. So, like, that’s another thing is. And you also, sometimes, if they’re not following you back, you only have one shot to dm them. I don’t know if you guys have seen this, right? So you’ve got one shot. So don’t word vomit into that one shot. Like, please don’t. I love your content. It’s amazing. We want to work with you. Here’s all the details. Like, nobody wants. That’s like, that’s third day. That’s not first date stuff. So it’s just like, hey, hope you see this. If you do, we’d love to work with you, period. Yep. Let them get back to you. You know what I mean? So, like, again, it’s just the same. Like, it’s dating. Like, don’t. Don’t give it all away at the beginning, you know, from a brand standpoint. And then, yeah, watch their stories, comment on their content, you know, show them that you understand them. Yeah. And then it makes sense to work together. Right? Yep. I have a question on, like, the communication back and forth and the beginning of that dating relationship. In one, you know, one instance, we’re thinking and talking about email being maybe somewhat of an antiquated channel with the younger generation, but then we’re also seeing, you know, more. So on the b two B side, something that we all use predominantly is LinkedIn. So is it appropriate or is it weird to kind of mix those channels where you. You are introduced on, you know, let’s say, whatever, Instagram, there’s a conversation happening there. If email is sort of like, I’m not really sure if this is going to be seen as an antiquated channel or maybe the younger folks aren’t answering email, looking at email. Is LinkedIn any? No. Young people are on LinkedIn. That’s what I was gonna say. I was like, totally true. Well, I will say who is on LinkedIn? That’s like, young people are on LinkedIn because it’s like when you’re in college, you’re looking for a job, so you want to make a LinkedIn. But I’m not posting my weed fairy. You don’t actively put. Your audience isn’t there. But I wouldn’t be posting your weed fairy content, be posting your hybrid marketing. Yeah, exactly. You know, it’s like, it’s. Instagram is kind of like one part of you and LinkedIn is another part of you. I’m just thinking as far as being seen more like in the professional realm, and that’s the best. I think that for Instagram, it’s just totally different, because for Instagram, like, let’s say I’m talking to SJ, and SJ doesn’t have their other job, and, you know, they don’t, like. They don’t really work in email at all. Right? They don’t know, like, whatever. But they know that companies work in email. Like, they know that everybody else. Everybody knows that, right? So, like, they’re gonna go give you their Gmail and they’re gonna go check for your proposal. I mean, you know, once there’s money on the line, like, now we’re talking. We’re not like, this isn’t going into somebody’s spam box anymore. So, I mean, that’s why an email. Email makes it official. I mean, emails, a contract. You can have a contract in email. You know, you can write back, okay, I’m doing these five things. You’re paying me. This here’s the link to pay. Like, that’s contract. You know, and you don’t. You just. The DM screenshots, really, like, that’s not going to. But those are not your receipts that you want. You know what I mean? You want. You want this to be a business. You want to, like, you’re going to have to pay taxes on that money. So treat it like a business. Yeah. In that kind of. In that same vein, if you are, you know, a marketer within your organization, and you’re trying to convince the C suite to give you some budget to invest in social influencing, what do you. What do you say? You, you know, it’s the channel. It works for you as an individual. Individual. You see the benefit of it, the potential return. How do you convince the C suite, who may not be leveraging in the same way? Or. Yeah, well, the first thing I would ask them is, what’s their hobby and who do they follow in their hobby? And then I would be like, how much do you think you spent because of that person this year? You know, and how many actions has that person been able to get you to take? Sure. And then it’s like, okay. And then they might make. Hopefully the C suite might say, yeah, they start being really passionate about somebody that they love or whatever, and then I can connect with them and say, all right, so for our target audience, SJ Weed fairy is the perfect person to be talking about our brand. And all the people that follow SJ love festivals and love this and that. And this is the reason why you should pay them. Right. And then that’s like, maybe. Maybe that will help. I think also explaining it in terms of celebrities could really help. So, like, you know, obviously, we can’t afford celebrities. Okay? We can’t afford any of this here, the middle of, you know, big people with 200,000 followers. Those are not celebrities, but we can’t afford them because they charge $7,000 a post. Right. We can’t afford them. And also, it’s not about investment, but we can afford to try this. So if you give me $10,000, I can show you the type of impact that this could have, and then you can go from there. That’s what I would say. If 10,000 is too much, then let’s not do it. Got it. Well, before anyone throws rocks at me for. I’m going to. I’m going to rep the C suite here and say, okay, there’s not a lot of budget. What about an AI influencer? Somebody tell me why not? And I’m. Again, this isn’t Jan speaking. I’m. Well, you’re the CEO. I’ve heard about this new thing. Yeah. Yeah. Erin, you talk about. Talk about how you heard about this, because I literally had no idea this existed. And then was doing a deep dive and was baffled. Yeah. Yes. So I was similarly. I was entirely unfamiliar. And then about a two months. Month. Two months ago, I went to Colorado ad day, because I’m an ad club member, and I. Forgive me for not remembering his name, but there was an agency owner who works. He works in. They make commercials and media, and they do social media and influencer management. He was very excited about introducing the entire room of people to this concept of AI influencers. And then he started pulling real stories, TikTok various things, showing AI influencers, and they looked like real humans. It felt like somebody. I think one of the examples was a person sitting in there, a person sitting in their car, you know, like. Like an influencer would be having. Looks like you’re taking a selfie. Yeah. And it was. It was mind blowing. Like, I didn’t. I had not heard of this concept before. And then when I saw the videos, I was like, wow, that’s interesting and frightening. And back to the authentic authenticity conversation. Wildly inauthentic. So, you know, I thought, yeah, let’s bring that up at the end of this thing. Like, it’s just a weird thing that will probably only increase. Well, the thing is, even if you are trying to save money, you are still, there’s still a person behind that AI generated person that is creating that artwork. You’re still going to have to pay someone, I think, I am assuming from what I researched. Jen, if you want to pull up the slide about this one, there’s this account you guys should all take a look at. Because what I really like about it is that they have an faq where they talk about, how did you come up with this character? How is this actually made? Who are they? Like, this is a, this is AI generated, this account. And it’s essentially like a 3d animation that you would see in a movie or a video game. And they can put them in different positions and whatever, change the lighting. But the faq there talks about the fact that it takes this artist three days to create one of these posts. And it’s time, extensive, time intensive, and it’s really an art form. And then you’re also posting it, you’re managing the account. Maybe it’s AI generated, but that doesn’t mean that some real person is not actually putting time and effort into it. So I feel like it might not even be a cheaper option. My guess is that it might even be more expensive. Well, I think there’s another aspect to it, which is the, you can go into a program, there’s like new, there’s sites where I think one’s called, like, content.com. like I think. And you can like, or content AI, and you can literally like, go tell it, feed it like a little bit of information and it makes a templatized something or other that is this AI influencers. But here’s the problem. They have no following. It’s not influencers. They’re nobody. They’re not a human. We’ve talked to this entire time about people buying my headphones because they like me. They’re not going to buy them just because they have, there’s some pretty woman who is, you know, wearing them in an ad. That’s an ad. If you want to go buy advertising, go buy advertising. You know, it’s like, and also, which we didn’t talk about here is if you want to take, take the influencers work. And let’s say that somebody makes a really great post for you. You go back to them and you say, hey, this is doing really well for us. We’re going to put some advertising dollars behind it. We. You can offer to pay them for them to put advertising dollars behind it. You can offer to do it for them. There’s ways to. It’s called whitelisting. Or you can just take that and turn it into an ad that you, whatever. But you have to pay those influencers for the usage rights on that. Then you can decide. How I would recommend doing it is giving up a percentage of the ad spend. Right. For each time you put ad dollars behind it. I’m going to give you a 5%. Maybe you only spend $500 on that ad and they only get, you know, $10 or what. I don’t even know what 5% of 500 is. You know, whatever. So 250 anyway. So $25. I don’t know. That’s a different webinar, our math webinar. I have people for that. In case you guys are worried about, like, my accounting and stuff. I do have a CFO, former Morgan Stadley. Oh, gosh. I want to be. I want to be respectful of time. I also want to show, you know, of course, you all follow. Follow these folks on, well, on LinkedIn, old Gen, I’ll say it, but also on Instagram as well. Email addresses are here. Any final thoughts before we wrap up? We’ve covered, I feel like we’ve covered a lot in a lot of different directions, both for the sake of the influencer and for the sake of the brand. Who’s looking to kind of jump a little bit more into influencer marketing. That’s great. This is a great conversation. Yeah, this has been a great conversation. If anyone would like to have a consultation with me, I’ll provide my calendly. I know there’s not a lot of people on the call, but like. But we can provide that back in the wrap up as well. Email. I’m sure you’re going to have follow up email coming out of this, so. Yeah. And I’d love to just hear about your goals and see if influencer marketing is something that could work for you. Awesome. Thanks, gang. Thank you so much for your time. Always super fun.
